The point is to provde a pretext (and funding) for reamament, presumably at the expense of wasteful fripperies sucha s healthcare, education, infrastructure and whatnot.
Is it really realistic for a deindustrialised UK to think about building a modern army? Modern warfare depends on an industrial economy and if the experience of the two, gigantic steel garbage cans called aircraft carriers is anything to go by, it's game over.
I miight add, that the UK military thinking has been based on fighting neo-colonial wars, essentiaally 'police actions'not against industrial and military giants like Russia or China.
Every body knows the day of the aircraft carrier is OVER. Today it’s economic and electronic warfare and drones. Believe me, the patriarchy will always find ways to make war. It’s their raison d’etre.
True. But GB has a 1000 years history of coming back from bad times to become a major a pain in the neck to others and making bank off of it. I suspect that if they promised the Crown Jewels to Raytheon, they could start making drones tomorrow solve their immigration problem and save their economy. They are almost as good at exploiting “resources” as we are.
As I wrote in a reply to a similar thread November 2024:
"Michael’s Substack Nov 24, 2024"
"The aircraft carrier is going to be exposed as the Battleship of the 21st Century. Just as the battleship's days ended in 1941, the Aircraft Carrier's days are numbered. The next US "Pearl Harbor" will happen out on the open ocean, not anchored quietly in port. No one can effectively protect these monsters against the various hyper-sonic and other advanced high speed weapons that have been deployed in the past quarter century. UK was so quick to play the lap dog to the US, that they failed to see the writing on the wall; the simple math says that UK cannot support or protect these massive white elephants. It will soon be equally clear to most everyone, that the USA increasingly cannot do so either. Think about this, the US carriers are increasingly depending on the massively flawed F-35 as well, how does this bode for the US? These are white elephants loaded with pork barrels . . . . The outcome is not going to be pretty for the US or the UK."
No it wasn't. Are you one of those ignorant people who think "battleship" means the same as "warship"?
Apart from some marginal bombardment duties against countries without air or sea power, the last battleship engagement was Leyte Gulf 1944. And all they did there was get sunk by aircraft.
There is a kind of person who would sooner die than read Marx. You see, they know that it's nonsense and also highly damaging to the reader. So they don't read it. /sarc
Every country in the West has "deindustrialised" over the last 20 years, are we also assuming the US can't have a "modern" army? Anything that is done can be undone. The movement of industry to China can be reversed if the govt has the intention and the will to do so, as I suspect China are about to find out if Trump follows through with his plans. Finally, if we haven't planned to fight Russia why have we maintained Trident when it would be useless in policing actions?
There is no way that the financial elite/rentiers will allow US industry to return. What would be in it for them that they couldn't get more of, and easier, elsewhere?
I'm no economist, but I like logic. My understanding is that the basic problem is not political at all, but financial. Big corporations (and the government) have sucked so much money out of the US economy that most people can't afford to buy anything much. And companies can't afford to set up factories or shops, or hire people.
Financialisation has eviscerated all conventional means, it's down to proxies, AI, and bugger the plebs (the reserve for meat assaults as needed). At face value they've believed their propaganda about a gas station with nukes. And now, who could have known... really, is this the state of "intelligence"? I love the smell of neo-liberalism burning in the morning - it's the smell of ... victory.
In contrast to one of the points made, I do actually find this 'reassuring' on a very basic level: the UK is obviously unable to fight a real war.
The analogy with Wembley Stadium is a good one - especially as the poor members of the present UK armed forces are leaving the job as quickly as England fans 5-0 down against Argentina with 5 minutes to play.
A telling quote:
"Resultantly, “the world is a more dangerous place than at any time since the end of the Cold War,” and “Britain is particularly vulnerable.”
"Hmm...I know! Let's finance fascism in Ukraine and facilitate genocide in Palestine! Our particularly underhand tactics in Ukraine will work a treat with the world's most powerful, nuclear-armed superpower!"
Unfortunately, in the constructed fantasy world of the British Establishment, Whitehall planners and 'journalists' (sic.) this seems to be what passes for logical thinking.
What’s funny is that the British army knew this after WW 1 when the aristocratic officers ordered so many men to needless death because of their incompetence. But of course, like all bullies, they just found a big buddy to scuttle along behind. Now they’ll probably do what the Romans did, just hire a lot of poor people to fight their battles for them.
The other funny is that it has taken the little shit Zelenskyy just 3 years to bring down 2 empires and an Alliance—The US, The Brits and NATO. Hy-larious!
I don't think that the British upper class has ever seen the needless deaths of working class people as much of a problem. And these days it is a positive boon to their Malthusian dreams.
I agree of course, but I do know that historically there was a period of crisis for the Brit’s after WW 1 when shame was heaped upon the old aristocracy and led to them losing stature. It was documented in many of the expats writings in the ‘20’s and ‘30’s and was why it was so hard to mount a defense against Hitler’s invasions of neighboring countries at that time.,
And Zelensky was a creation, a puppet. He doesn’t call the shots. He does what he’s told. The Ukraine war is a US project, with European collaboration and connivance.
Exactly. One thing tho, the deep state can put up a talented shithead to mis-lead his country under CIA (Nuland, AIPAC) control but find out he’s good enough at his thuggery that he slips their bonds for awhile and goes roque. I think both Nutty Yahoo and the Sweatshirt have done that because Winken, Bliken and Nodding Off are all so feckless.
Has Britain ever worked for peace? Name one civil war that they haven't either instigated or looked to prolong as long as possible, in order to swoop in like vultures and pick up assets and land. America, Greece, Russia, the list is endless.
And what about Britain's commonwealth? That's the whole reason for Britain's current angst. Britain has no intention of letting go of one acre of land it still controls. It needs a military to do that. That's what one might call *British* hegemony and it has nothing to do with America.
Where goes the U.K., the U.S. is sure to follow. Or vice versa. With the collapse of the U.K. much of the western world will feel the vacuum. Canada is looking for different trading partners due to their rift with Trump. Australia is having its own economic issues and in no position to offer much support. If anything, they will need support of their own and there won't be any forthcoming from the U.K. or the U.S.
Scotland is rumored to be revisiting another independence referendum. Ireland is struggling and they don't have the capacity to absorb the welfare state that London has left the north in.
Russia and China don't really have to do anything other than keep defending what they have right now as the U.K., the U.S. and Europe are imploding by themselves. All they have to do is wait it out.
The Elites were fine with throwing billions of £s out to Ukraine but they forgot that they had hollowed out our Armed Force,s before they started a pi**ing contest. That's the problem with us British, we're fine at starting the pi**ing contest but our ability to back it up is always limited because the Elites are either cowardly or corrupt, or both.
Even if we had the money we British have the same issue as Ukraine has now. We don't have fit, trained soldiers and our health service is on its knees with 7 million in the queue for treatment. Our industry is dead. We are 'sustained' by Banking/Financial Services which are offshored, at least, the profits are. We as a country are diminished and will not be saved. Charter Cities will be staffed with cheap labour imported as the poor people of Syria, Sudan etc etc try to escape war, genocide and famine.
Instead of merely stealing the resources of the UK the Elites will continue to destroy it while the masses and King Charles look the other way.
Well, what happened to the NHS is what happens to countries that listen to the US. It has been telling the UK to defund the NHS for a while so that you can have the wonderful for-profit health care industry that the US has. The key word is "privatizing."
Your elite should look at what happens to the other allies of the United States: it's bad to be its "enemy" but it's worse to be an ally.
LMAO. The NHS's insolvency has nothing to do with America. You seem to think America has this almost supernatural hypnotic power to order the Brits around. The same Brits who react violently against American sayings, American holidays, American owners of English soccer teams, I could go on and on. You need help, but I'd advise not asking the NHS for it.
Well the NHS began offering trans surgery way back in 2004 and US elites copied this disastrous policy in 2013. Now our healthcare is unaffordable. The shit goes both ways.
There’s a new way of making war in the world now and it’s less soldier, more corporate oriented. Less iron more ions. Watch T-rump, he’s going to show us all how to dominate without a strong war-machine. Hopefully he buries both empires in the process.
This is what happens when out of touch clueless entitled arseholes run the country & it's military. They actually believe the Hollywood version of American military might. They actually believe Britain can do what it did under Churchill. Anyone with half a brain who keeps up with what's going on in the World knows. Britain has great Special forces, everything else is too small & to badly equipped to achieve anything. Too many yes men in the top military positions pandering to their old bum chums from the likes of Eton. Believing they're James Bond or some other fictional hero from ancient history. The reality is weak leaders lead to a weak country & weak military
“the world is a more dangerous place than at any time since the end of the Cold War”. Meaning: The world is not as docile and submissive as it used to be in the good ol empire days.
Note the UK have bent over today to support US' refusal to accept Maduro as President of Venezuela...or should I say Oil-rich Venezuela. The US tentacles spread all over Latin America. Lammy is a disgrace
"Absurdly, the navy lacks the destroyers, frigates and submarines needed to defend its flagships..."
The first part is true. But in fact the carriers cannot be defended at all. Not against Russia or China - or possibly Iran. Hypersonic missiles slice through all existing air defences like a knife through butter.
The only way of not having the UK armed forces wiped out is not to pit them against any serious military power.
By the way, why does His Majesty's Government poke its nose into the business of other people 1,500 miles away? The Russians would be perfectly happy to live in peace with us, and trade with us if we want. So why are we told that we must go to war against them?
It ain’t just “the military”! That entire nation is in some kind of death spiral, and if they don’t “pull up” soon, the entire nation is a relic of history! It’s like watching someone you care about, get addicted to drugs, and slowly commit suicide!
All it took was Trump to expose the deciet. Our military power is reliant on American weapons systems. We can't even fire storm shadows without American satellites. Please God don't let them waste another couple of hundred billion on renewing Trident.
Why can't we accept the truth, forget geopolitical ambitions and concentrate on diplomacy.
The Uk has shut repurposed and downsized its shipyards so wither the Royal Navy? So time to rebuild Newcastle and Birkenhead as Naval ship builders,again military hardware is to important to be provided solely by private enterprise.The state should be in control of military production.
After the Northvolt super grift where they are forced to import Chinese equipment and engineers training them and yet they still can't produce a single passable battery in a decade?
The point is to provde a pretext (and funding) for reamament, presumably at the expense of wasteful fripperies sucha s healthcare, education, infrastructure and whatnot.
Is it really realistic for a deindustrialised UK to think about building a modern army? Modern warfare depends on an industrial economy and if the experience of the two, gigantic steel garbage cans called aircraft carriers is anything to go by, it's game over.
I miight add, that the UK military thinking has been based on fighting neo-colonial wars, essentiaally 'police actions'not against industrial and military giants like Russia or China.
In other words: the US and its allies can only bomb poor countries who can't defend themselves.
Is that not what they have been doing for years?
Make that centuries
That's what every country does.
Great job
Every body knows the day of the aircraft carrier is OVER. Today it’s economic and electronic warfare and drones. Believe me, the patriarchy will always find ways to make war. It’s their raison d’etre.
The Russians described our latest carrier as a “useful target”.
Hahahaha! Love it! And the Houthies practice on them!
I can't argue with that but the question is: can the UK?
You complain we have been doing it for "hundreds of years" and that it is all we've ever done, then complain we can't now?
True. But GB has a 1000 years history of coming back from bad times to become a major a pain in the neck to others and making bank off of it. I suspect that if they promised the Crown Jewels to Raytheon, they could start making drones tomorrow solve their immigration problem and save their economy. They are almost as good at exploiting “resources” as we are.
What immigration problem?
Way to be well informed.
Yeah it was a real pain in the neck when we ended slavery world wide.
As I wrote in a reply to a similar thread November 2024:
"Michael’s Substack Nov 24, 2024"
"The aircraft carrier is going to be exposed as the Battleship of the 21st Century. Just as the battleship's days ended in 1941, the Aircraft Carrier's days are numbered. The next US "Pearl Harbor" will happen out on the open ocean, not anchored quietly in port. No one can effectively protect these monsters against the various hyper-sonic and other advanced high speed weapons that have been deployed in the past quarter century. UK was so quick to play the lap dog to the US, that they failed to see the writing on the wall; the simple math says that UK cannot support or protect these massive white elephants. It will soon be equally clear to most everyone, that the USA increasingly cannot do so either. Think about this, the US carriers are increasingly depending on the massively flawed F-35 as well, how does this bode for the US? These are white elephants loaded with pork barrels . . . . The outcome is not going to be pretty for the US or the UK."
Scott Ritter has been saying this for nearly a year.
The battleship was still a major part of warfare up until the 1990s, I don't know why you think otherwise.
Because it was useful for shelling land of countries which didn't shoot back, while being less expensive than using DDGs for the same task.
No it wasn't. Are you one of those ignorant people who think "battleship" means the same as "warship"?
Apart from some marginal bombardment duties against countries without air or sea power, the last battleship engagement was Leyte Gulf 1944. And all they did there was get sunk by aircraft.
By the patriarchy, I presume you mean capitalism.
No. If I meant capitalism I’d say that. I mean patriarchy.
With the rampant neoliberalism that panders to the Feminist movement in the UK you still think we live under a …… “Patriarchy “ ?
Please lol
👎
I was politely pointing out your error. It is capitalism, not patriarchy per sae, that is the problem here. Feel free to go read some Marx.
There is a kind of person who would sooner die than read Marx. You see, they know that it's nonsense and also highly damaging to the reader. So they don't read it. /sarc
Hahaha. silly girl
As long as GB can still borrow in sterling, they will be fine.
You talk as if countries are sovereign. It’s the corporations that control western governments, but nobody ever wants to look at that.
OK, so who is going to tell H.M. Government to find projects that do not generate a negative ROI?
Fine to do what exactly?
To pay for what they cannot themselves do.
I ain't got none, I guess it falls to you to lend yours
They have a fiat currency. When are you going to learn Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)?
I understand MMT just fine. To paraphrase Hyman Minsky: "Anyone can make their own currency. Getting anyone to accept it is the hard part."
Not if you got the guns.
I dunno, there are plenty of examples of state-backed currencies failing.
If you have the guns, you don't need the currency.
Every country in the West has "deindustrialised" over the last 20 years, are we also assuming the US can't have a "modern" army? Anything that is done can be undone. The movement of industry to China can be reversed if the govt has the intention and the will to do so, as I suspect China are about to find out if Trump follows through with his plans. Finally, if we haven't planned to fight Russia why have we maintained Trident when it would be useless in policing actions?
" Anything that is done can be undone".
OK - let me know when you have unboiled an egg. Or become younger.
There is no way that the financial elite/rentiers will allow US industry to return. What would be in it for them that they couldn't get more of, and easier, elsewhere?
American industry has moved back - the industry remaining in China is the huge cc companies I would guess. Apple, Tesla etc.
That turns out not to be the case.
That's bad. And sad. More incentives to return necessary? Don't know, but I guess Trump's chaos is maybe deterring this?
I'm no economist, but I like logic. My understanding is that the basic problem is not political at all, but financial. Big corporations (and the government) have sucked so much money out of the US economy that most people can't afford to buy anything much. And companies can't afford to set up factories or shops, or hire people.
See https://michael-hudson.com/ and Dr Hudson's books.
Yes, whatever happens, the arms industry gravy train rolls on!
Financialisation has eviscerated all conventional means, it's down to proxies, AI, and bugger the plebs (the reserve for meat assaults as needed). At face value they've believed their propaganda about a gas station with nukes. And now, who could have known... really, is this the state of "intelligence"? I love the smell of neo-liberalism burning in the morning - it's the smell of ... victory.
Brilliant article, Kit - keep up the good work!
In contrast to one of the points made, I do actually find this 'reassuring' on a very basic level: the UK is obviously unable to fight a real war.
The analogy with Wembley Stadium is a good one - especially as the poor members of the present UK armed forces are leaving the job as quickly as England fans 5-0 down against Argentina with 5 minutes to play.
A telling quote:
"Resultantly, “the world is a more dangerous place than at any time since the end of the Cold War,” and “Britain is particularly vulnerable.”
"Hmm...I know! Let's finance fascism in Ukraine and facilitate genocide in Palestine! Our particularly underhand tactics in Ukraine will work a treat with the world's most powerful, nuclear-armed superpower!"
Unfortunately, in the constructed fantasy world of the British Establishment, Whitehall planners and 'journalists' (sic.) this seems to be what passes for logical thinking.
What’s funny is that the British army knew this after WW 1 when the aristocratic officers ordered so many men to needless death because of their incompetence. But of course, like all bullies, they just found a big buddy to scuttle along behind. Now they’ll probably do what the Romans did, just hire a lot of poor people to fight their battles for them.
The other funny is that it has taken the little shit Zelenskyy just 3 years to bring down 2 empires and an Alliance—The US, The Brits and NATO. Hy-larious!
I don't think that the British upper class has ever seen the needless deaths of working class people as much of a problem. And these days it is a positive boon to their Malthusian dreams.
I agree of course, but I do know that historically there was a period of crisis for the Brit’s after WW 1 when shame was heaped upon the old aristocracy and led to them losing stature. It was documented in many of the expats writings in the ‘20’s and ‘30’s and was why it was so hard to mount a defense against Hitler’s invasions of neighboring countries at that time.,
And Zelensky was a creation, a puppet. He doesn’t call the shots. He does what he’s told. The Ukraine war is a US project, with European collaboration and connivance.
Exactly. One thing tho, the deep state can put up a talented shithead to mis-lead his country under CIA (Nuland, AIPAC) control but find out he’s good enough at his thuggery that he slips their bonds for awhile and goes roque. I think both Nutty Yahoo and the Sweatshirt have done that because Winken, Bliken and Nodding Off are all so feckless.
It was Afghanistan.
The graveyard of empires.
The crappier the British Army the better for the rest of the world.
Oh how the mighty have fallen! So the thin red line is now just a pink dot and not a moment too soon.
Simple solution...step back from supporting US hegemony. Work for peace in the world
Spend more on health, education. Etc. Join a European military alliance without US influence
Or how about a European non-military alliance? Or - oh, wait - isn't that called the EU?
We all know where that went.
Has Britain ever worked for peace? Name one civil war that they haven't either instigated or looked to prolong as long as possible, in order to swoop in like vultures and pick up assets and land. America, Greece, Russia, the list is endless.
And what about Britain's commonwealth? That's the whole reason for Britain's current angst. Britain has no intention of letting go of one acre of land it still controls. It needs a military to do that. That's what one might call *British* hegemony and it has nothing to do with America.
No, same organization, they just moved office and got a new Godfather!
Where goes the U.K., the U.S. is sure to follow. Or vice versa. With the collapse of the U.K. much of the western world will feel the vacuum. Canada is looking for different trading partners due to their rift with Trump. Australia is having its own economic issues and in no position to offer much support. If anything, they will need support of their own and there won't be any forthcoming from the U.K. or the U.S.
Scotland is rumored to be revisiting another independence referendum. Ireland is struggling and they don't have the capacity to absorb the welfare state that London has left the north in.
Russia and China don't really have to do anything other than keep defending what they have right now as the U.K., the U.S. and Europe are imploding by themselves. All they have to do is wait it out.
I think it's "vice versa." The UK has been the puppet of the US for several years.
It's all the same thing, the world's largest criminal organization just moved their HQ and got a new 'Godfather'!
Both are vassals of the British (?) Crown.
Look who owns what.
The Elites were fine with throwing billions of £s out to Ukraine but they forgot that they had hollowed out our Armed Force,s before they started a pi**ing contest. That's the problem with us British, we're fine at starting the pi**ing contest but our ability to back it up is always limited because the Elites are either cowardly or corrupt, or both.
Even if we had the money we British have the same issue as Ukraine has now. We don't have fit, trained soldiers and our health service is on its knees with 7 million in the queue for treatment. Our industry is dead. We are 'sustained' by Banking/Financial Services which are offshored, at least, the profits are. We as a country are diminished and will not be saved. Charter Cities will be staffed with cheap labour imported as the poor people of Syria, Sudan etc etc try to escape war, genocide and famine.
Instead of merely stealing the resources of the UK the Elites will continue to destroy it while the masses and King Charles look the other way.
Well, what happened to the NHS is what happens to countries that listen to the US. It has been telling the UK to defund the NHS for a while so that you can have the wonderful for-profit health care industry that the US has. The key word is "privatizing."
Your elite should look at what happens to the other allies of the United States: it's bad to be its "enemy" but it's worse to be an ally.
"Poor Mexico; so far from heaven, so close to the US!"
LMAO. The NHS's insolvency has nothing to do with America. You seem to think America has this almost supernatural hypnotic power to order the Brits around. The same Brits who react violently against American sayings, American holidays, American owners of English soccer teams, I could go on and on. You need help, but I'd advise not asking the NHS for it.
You're talking about the average Brit on the street. I'm talking about the UK government. Two different subjects
Well the NHS began offering trans surgery way back in 2004 and US elites copied this disastrous policy in 2013. Now our healthcare is unaffordable. The shit goes both ways.
You're talking about choices made by the doctors. I'm talking about systemic changes. Two different things.
You think DOCTORS drove that policy change? Wow, the naivete is off the charts.
There’s a new way of making war in the world now and it’s less soldier, more corporate oriented. Less iron more ions. Watch T-rump, he’s going to show us all how to dominate without a strong war-machine. Hopefully he buries both empires in the process.
***Less iron more ions***
"the Ukraine proxy war offered 'a unique case study for understanding the role of electromagnetic warfare in modern conflict.'
... drones and DIGITAL SYSTEMS dominating the battlefield
.
WSJ reported brain injuries from ‘blasts’ in the Ukraine conflict. Did we read about blast-induced brain injuries in any war before??
(https://www.wsj.com/health/healthcare/a-surge-of-wartime-brain-injuries-is-changing-livesand-offering-lessons-898a9745 )
Energy weapons: A bn-$$ market: https://t.co/6Aw6WtB2UX
US: “We have dominance” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8OVvsP7glE (US)
MSN reports on 'laser weapons' this year: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/ukraine-s-new-weapon-is-a-laser/ar-AA1wRCxP
.
Less-lethal weapons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzG4oEutPbA
.
Oh, and these digital Weapon Systems have been developed and TESTED on non-consenting MK-Ultra class targets day in day out and ongoing.
And the media fail to report about civilians in the general public assaulted in their own homes and beyond as they cry out for help -
A failure granting free reign to the Military Industrial Complex / state criminals to hit civilians on home turf and pursue atrocities as they please.
.
Check out education on next-generation weapon systems -
MD reporting on everyday citizens’ Havana Syndrome epidemic & its Cover-Up: https://lenbermd.substack.com/
This is what happens when out of touch clueless entitled arseholes run the country & it's military. They actually believe the Hollywood version of American military might. They actually believe Britain can do what it did under Churchill. Anyone with half a brain who keeps up with what's going on in the World knows. Britain has great Special forces, everything else is too small & to badly equipped to achieve anything. Too many yes men in the top military positions pandering to their old bum chums from the likes of Eton. Believing they're James Bond or some other fictional hero from ancient history. The reality is weak leaders lead to a weak country & weak military
Starmer says it all. Pathetic.
“the world is a more dangerous place than at any time since the end of the Cold War”. Meaning: The world is not as docile and submissive as it used to be in the good ol empire days.
Note the UK have bent over today to support US' refusal to accept Maduro as President of Venezuela...or should I say Oil-rich Venezuela. The US tentacles spread all over Latin America. Lammy is a disgrace
"Absurdly, the navy lacks the destroyers, frigates and submarines needed to defend its flagships..."
The first part is true. But in fact the carriers cannot be defended at all. Not against Russia or China - or possibly Iran. Hypersonic missiles slice through all existing air defences like a knife through butter.
The only way of not having the UK armed forces wiped out is not to pit them against any serious military power.
By the way, why does His Majesty's Government poke its nose into the business of other people 1,500 miles away? The Russians would be perfectly happy to live in peace with us, and trade with us if we want. So why are we told that we must go to war against them?
It ain’t just “the military”! That entire nation is in some kind of death spiral, and if they don’t “pull up” soon, the entire nation is a relic of history! It’s like watching someone you care about, get addicted to drugs, and slowly commit suicide!
All it took was Trump to expose the deciet. Our military power is reliant on American weapons systems. We can't even fire storm shadows without American satellites. Please God don't let them waste another couple of hundred billion on renewing Trident.
Why can't we accept the truth, forget geopolitical ambitions and concentrate on diplomacy.
The Uk has shut repurposed and downsized its shipyards so wither the Royal Navy? So time to rebuild Newcastle and Birkenhead as Naval ship builders,again military hardware is to important to be provided solely by private enterprise.The state should be in control of military production.
After the Northvolt super grift where they are forced to import Chinese equipment and engineers training them and yet they still can't produce a single passable battery in a decade?
Lol, dream on.
It's cheaper for them to commit terrorism against civilians.