The parallel between Ukraine and Croatia is also interesting, as the latter has likewise enacted laws that—under the label of "totalitarian ideologies"—lump communism and Nazism together, while at the same time, local forms of Nazi iconography are becoming increasingly visible in the public sphere.
Ppl often forget it wasn't just Germans.. there were Hungarians, Austrians, Romanians, Italian Expeditionary Corps, Finns, Croatian Ustashi, French SS "Charlemagne", Spanish "Blue Legion", Belgian, Dutch and Scandinavian Waffen, Norwegian SS "Viking", Ukrainian Bandera, and many more.
Yes, during the dissolution of Yugoslavia, Croatian nationalists revived Ustasa leaders from WW2 as nationalist heroes. These people were responsible for the murder of hundreds of thousands of Jews and Serbians. So many people were murdered at Jasenovac prison camp that some genocide scholars designate it as a seventh extermination camp after Auschwitz, Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec, Chelmno and Majdanek. Similar movements in Baltic countries.
Exactly. That's what they do with all the conflicts, same with Iran.. they always try to portray it like a standalone "unprovoked" act, as if there's no history behind it..
***
"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became the truth."
Then you are not looking. You are falling for U.S. propaganda as expressed through its corporate media. It is obvious to everyone, including us Americans.
IN France where I have lived for 20 something years.......the French do not want to look at History.
When I first came to France from the US I felt I was free. Since then I have met hundreds of ill-informed people. Makes me wonder about French education.
My old friends do not speak to me anymore.. They know they are wrong but cannot admit this..........pomposity in Uk and in France it is hypocrisy!
In fall of 1999, I flew to Kiev. The woman I was dating was a Kazakhstan-born Russian working at the US Embassy Commercial Interests Section, and her boss was marrying a Ukrainian woman (who also worked at the US Embassy). She was invited, and I was her +1.
It was a fun trip, in a lot of ways. Kiev is lovely. (We called it Kiev, back then. I still do.)
But I've never forgotten. I needed a haircut, so my lady and I went out, and found a hair salon or barbershop. The Ukrainian women in the salon pretended they couldn't understand my lady. Ah, but they could understand my Russian just fine! (As proud as I can be of my Russian language skills, trust me, Liza Semenova's Russian was far beyond mine.)
It was one of my first encounters with rank, naked bigotry. I'm still unsettled by it, nearly 30 years later.
Odd. I lived eight years in Ukraine. Pretty much everyone spoke Russian. In the office, we often had to write petitions or documents which had to be in Ukrainian, so "how do you say that in Ukrainian?" was a standard question. For that matter, once I had to explain the meanings of some fairly ordinary Ukrainian word (in Russian) to a Kiev0-based businessman and a representative of the Yuschenko regime. (I have many similar such stories.) Even in Lvov, I got by speaking Russian.
I did meet one miserable woman at the post office who performatively refused to speak Russian, but the girls at post office told me to just ignore her. "We all do!"
I remember she had very long straight black hair and no makeup which was itself pretty performative, by the standards of Ukrainian women. And yes, she acted miserable, all the time.
Interesting that five to seven million brave Ukrainians fought in the Red Army during WW2 to defeat Nazism. Only tens of thousands belonged to the nationalist and collaborator organizations and who are the ancestors of today’s ideologues governing Ukraine.
I lived eight years in Ukraine. Nationalism then was seen as strictly for freaks and losers.
Since that time, literally millions of Ukrainians were perfectly happy to make war on on their relatives and own grandparents, when it was made clear that adopting the nationalist agenda was the price of admission to The Club.
BTW Did you know that the reason Canadian government initially welcomed the Nazis after WW2 was to have them as "Strike-breakers" against the workers' Unions?
Oh my god! Where do these numbers come from? Think about a very unknown fact: the civil war in Galicia ended with Stalin's death. Khrushchev used his political power to settle the conflict. Until the mid-1950s (!!!), the OUN fighters could move freely (like fish in the water) through the area. Or, if your numbers are correct, only tens of thousands of collaborators and nationalists moved/lived/worked/fought in the middle of millions of Soviet supporter - not very realistic, especially when you see the problems of the Red Army. I do not even mention Vlasov.
The attempts to seize history's narrative by Ukraine and by Israel are horrible. I hope they don't work.
These past few years, I've discovered a lot of history that has been misrepresented and, of course, it always makes the west look good, despite all the atrocities it has committed.
In 2004, the CIA set out on its most brazen propaganda and nation building schemes.
Turn an entire nation into rabid neoNazis where literal Nazi figures of the past are revamped into Father of the Nation figures.
It took two generations, and the results are staggering.
The brainwashed zombie nation of zioNazi Ukraine has fed 2 million of its sons into the trash heap of history all so that venture capital could make a buck and Russia be tested, even if not defeated.
The Ukrainian oligarchs and wealthy who always despised their peasants and working class got filthy rich, EU and US defense contractors are making a fortune.. and the US and EU citizens are paying through their teeth for what is essentially BlackRock, Vanguard, StateStree to make a buck.
Every time I hear someone proclaim Slava Ukraini.. I cringe.
Robert Kagan (Victoria Nuland's husband co-founded the neoconservative think tank in 1997 which was known as the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) with fellow Neocon William Kristol (Irving's son), Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, and Elliot Abrams, all of whom were destined for key positions in the Bush administration - with the exception of Kristol. PNAC became the outfit which wrote the faux-scholarly policy papers, and provided much of the intellectual energy, undergirding not only the unhinged Iraq invasion, but the broader neo-imperial strategy that’s brutally transformed the world and killed maybe millions.
***
This extraordinary Robert Kagan/Victoria Nudelman husband-and-wife duo makes quite a one-two punch for the Military-Industrial Complex, an inside-outside team that creates the need for more military spending, applies political pressure to ensure higher appropriations, and watches as thankful weapons manufacturers lavish grants on like-minded hawkish Washington "think tanks".
***
Fred Kagan's wife Kimberly (nee Kessler) is the head of the Institute for the Study of War and holds typical neocon positions.
In spring 2011, Victoria Nuland became State Department spokesperson under Hillary Clinton as she ramped up the "regime change" assault on Moammar Ghaddafi of Libya.
The campaign led to the toppling of the Libyan government and killing of Ghaddafi. Commenting on the murder and bayonet sodomizing of Ghaddafi, Nuland’s boss Hillary Clinton chortled "We came, we saw, he died"…
***
After the murder of Ghaddafi, Clinton and hawks such as Nuland realized the US had control of the Libyan military arsenal. They could funnel arms to insurgents seeking to overthrow the Syrian government.
***
Neocon war pig Bill Kristol and Scott Horton Debate U.S. Interventionism:
You have failed to report on the story of Bogdan Syrotiuk, a young socialist in Ukraine who has been sentenced to 15 years in prison for writing articles for the World Socialist Web Site. The WSWS has published articles on Bogdan's case since he was first arrested two years ago. He is 27 years old with health problems and Ukraine's prisons are hellholes. Please join in the efforts to get him released.
Here in Austria we have the same very harsh punishment; if you show symbols of the NSDAP, even if "something" happens accidentally, you will land in jail - but, there is no law prohibiting the symbols of Fascism or Communism. You give a good overview, but the reader has to know what the words stand for. Your usage of Fascism (based in Gentile, centered around the nation) and National Socialism (centered around racism and socialism) is at least problematic. Was Bandera a fascist or a national socialist? In my opinion, neither nor. Was he a socialist at all, clearly no, he fought for the suppressed small farmers, he wanted that these people had the same access to the law system as the Poles, protecting their property. Therefore, the OUN was fighting the Soviet occupation force after the Molotov/Ribbentrop deal, again because of property; before this deal, he fought against the Poles, and Poland was an aristocratic/Catholic autocracy. It would be good, if you present what are the actual positions of the Ukrainian Nationalist on property, free market or free speech. Only racism is clear; the Slavic Galicians hate the Slavic Russians, even though the languages are very similar and, throughout history, they have had the same main enemy: Poland.
In 2009 the European Parliament instituted an annual commemoration on August 23rd, to “mark the European Day of Remembrance for Victims of All Totalitarian and Authoritarian Regimes”. This is just one of several modern-day initiatives to perversely conflate Communism and Nazism, while transforming Wehrmacht and SS collaborators, Holocaust perpetrators, and fascists in countries liberated by the Red Army into victims, and laying blame for World War II at Soviets' feet.
***
And No one ever mentions that the Socialists and Communists were the first prisoners in Nazi concentration camps.
Like the Communist Party of Germany, the leader of which, Ernst Thälmann, was tortured and executed by Nazi regime or Georg Schumann, German politician, resistance fighter against the Nazi regime, tortured and killed by Gestapo on January 11, 1945
***
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. "
-Martin Niemöller, German theologian and pastor, arrested by Gestapo and imprisoned in concentration camp as a political prisoner
I remember reading Arendt in my teens and thinking it made sense, the narrative of closed (autocratic) vs. good, open western societies. Then Lucy pulled the football away.
The parallel between Ukraine and Croatia is also interesting, as the latter has likewise enacted laws that—under the label of "totalitarian ideologies"—lump communism and Nazism together, while at the same time, local forms of Nazi iconography are becoming increasingly visible in the public sphere.
Ppl often forget it wasn't just Germans.. there were Hungarians, Austrians, Romanians, Italian Expeditionary Corps, Finns, Croatian Ustashi, French SS "Charlemagne", Spanish "Blue Legion", Belgian, Dutch and Scandinavian Waffen, Norwegian SS "Viking", Ukrainian Bandera, and many more.
EU 1.0
Yes, during the dissolution of Yugoslavia, Croatian nationalists revived Ustasa leaders from WW2 as nationalist heroes. These people were responsible for the murder of hundreds of thousands of Jews and Serbians. So many people were murdered at Jasenovac prison camp that some genocide scholars designate it as a seventh extermination camp after Auschwitz, Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec, Chelmno and Majdanek. Similar movements in Baltic countries.
Of course fo the Ukrainian regime and its sponsors in the west, history is of interest solely to the extent that it can be weaponized in the present.
What does anyone propose to do about it? The West is strong and therefore its lies are repeated as settled fact.
Exactly. That's what they do with all the conflicts, same with Iran.. they always try to portray it like a standalone "unprovoked" act, as if there's no history behind it..
***
"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became the truth."
- George Orwell
***
How The British "Elite" Re-Wrote World History:
youtube.com/watch?v=kfqHMTBgOlM&t=635s
The West is dying because of its lies.
G. Carlin: America is one big lie and you are a fool for believing in it:
youtube.com/watch?v=YqdsNxS_fk8&t=153s
I see no reason to believe this.
Then you are not looking. You are falling for U.S. propaganda as expressed through its corporate media. It is obvious to everyone, including us Americans.
The breathy predictions of imminent collapse were already old, before I was a kitten.
I am old too Feral.........IF you do not see this then I worry for you.
The west is over.
So produce the data. Not wishful thinking, data.
“Those who control the present, control the past and those who control the past control the future.”
"We must rise up, with revolutionary fervor, and overthrow the oppressors through targeted violence!" /s
"Said the Fed."
Speak truth, present alternative visions, ask questions.
Sigh. When all is said and done, I remain a naive optimist.
History is written by the winners.
Man, if I had the answers, I'd be typing this from a yurt in Mongolia on an extended ramble.
I'm not going to change anything big in this world. I'm just an old man on the ground, looking at the world and shaking my head in befuddlement.
As the old Kris Kristofferson song went, though, "But I can't believe that no one wants to know."
So I read Kit Klarenberg's articles, and sometimes I comment on them, and I try to understand.
"It's a peaceful life."
IN France where I have lived for 20 something years.......the French do not want to look at History.
When I first came to France from the US I felt I was free. Since then I have met hundreds of ill-informed people. Makes me wonder about French education.
My old friends do not speak to me anymore.. They know they are wrong but cannot admit this..........pomposity in Uk and in France it is hypocrisy!
France: The Evil Empire
youtube.com/watch?v=yrmbCiGwO1g
In fall of 1999, I flew to Kiev. The woman I was dating was a Kazakhstan-born Russian working at the US Embassy Commercial Interests Section, and her boss was marrying a Ukrainian woman (who also worked at the US Embassy). She was invited, and I was her +1.
It was a fun trip, in a lot of ways. Kiev is lovely. (We called it Kiev, back then. I still do.)
But I've never forgotten. I needed a haircut, so my lady and I went out, and found a hair salon or barbershop. The Ukrainian women in the salon pretended they couldn't understand my lady. Ah, but they could understand my Russian just fine! (As proud as I can be of my Russian language skills, trust me, Liza Semenova's Russian was far beyond mine.)
It was one of my first encounters with rank, naked bigotry. I'm still unsettled by it, nearly 30 years later.
Odd. I lived eight years in Ukraine. Pretty much everyone spoke Russian. In the office, we often had to write petitions or documents which had to be in Ukrainian, so "how do you say that in Ukrainian?" was a standard question. For that matter, once I had to explain the meanings of some fairly ordinary Ukrainian word (in Russian) to a Kiev0-based businessman and a representative of the Yuschenko regime. (I have many similar such stories.) Even in Lvov, I got by speaking Russian.
I did meet one miserable woman at the post office who performatively refused to speak Russian, but the girls at post office told me to just ignore her. "We all do!"
I remember she had very long straight black hair and no makeup which was itself pretty performative, by the standards of Ukrainian women. And yes, she acted miserable, all the time.
Interesting that five to seven million brave Ukrainians fought in the Red Army during WW2 to defeat Nazism. Only tens of thousands belonged to the nationalist and collaborator organizations and who are the ancestors of today’s ideologues governing Ukraine.
I lived eight years in Ukraine. Nationalism then was seen as strictly for freaks and losers.
Since that time, literally millions of Ukrainians were perfectly happy to make war on on their relatives and own grandparents, when it was made clear that adopting the nationalist agenda was the price of admission to The Club.
Between May and June 1947 the British government secretly transported 8,000 Ukrainian Nazi SS soldiers to Britain and Canada.
The "Rimini list" details their names and Ranks.
***
Many of them later migrated to Canada:
youtube.com/watch?v=ASPoFzmDteg
***
One of them was recently given a standing ovation in Canadian Parliament:
youtube.com/watch?v=vezCq5KcC5c
youtube.com/watch?v=ASPoFzmDteg
***
Canada admits letting in 2,000 Ukrainian SS troopers, 1997:
jweekly.com/1997/02/07/canada-admits-letting-in-2-000-ukrainian-ss-troopers/
***
Ottawa advised against releasing names of Nazi war criminals:
theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-federal-ministers-advised-against-releasing-names-of-900-alleged-nazi/
***
BTW Did you know that the reason Canadian government initially welcomed the Nazis after WW2 was to have them as "Strike-breakers" against the workers' Unions?
youtu.be/aTd8HovAG0I
Makes sense given that Canada has the largest Ukrainian diaspora in the world. Can’t help thinking about Chrystia Freeland’s collaborator grandfather.
Oh my god! Where do these numbers come from? Think about a very unknown fact: the civil war in Galicia ended with Stalin's death. Khrushchev used his political power to settle the conflict. Until the mid-1950s (!!!), the OUN fighters could move freely (like fish in the water) through the area. Or, if your numbers are correct, only tens of thousands of collaborators and nationalists moved/lived/worked/fought in the middle of millions of Soviet supporter - not very realistic, especially when you see the problems of the Red Army. I do not even mention Vlasov.
CIA-Ukraine project "Aerodynamic", started after WW2:
cryptome.org/2016/01/cia-ua-aerodynamic.pdf
***
Bandera's MI6 Alliance Exposed:
substack.com/home/post/p-159633379
***
MI6 Support For Nazi 'Forest Brothers':
substack.com/home/post/p-175872983
***
BTW After WW2 British government welcomed thousands of Ukrainian (Galicien) SS OUN/B members:
youtube.com/watch?v=UB_Gs-0dhOo
***
"If two neighbors are fighting today, it means an Englishman visited one of them yesterday"
- Indian folk saying
The attempts to seize history's narrative by Ukraine and by Israel are horrible. I hope they don't work.
These past few years, I've discovered a lot of history that has been misrepresented and, of course, it always makes the west look good, despite all the atrocities it has committed.
In 2004, the CIA set out on its most brazen propaganda and nation building schemes.
Turn an entire nation into rabid neoNazis where literal Nazi figures of the past are revamped into Father of the Nation figures.
It took two generations, and the results are staggering.
The brainwashed zombie nation of zioNazi Ukraine has fed 2 million of its sons into the trash heap of history all so that venture capital could make a buck and Russia be tested, even if not defeated.
The Ukrainian oligarchs and wealthy who always despised their peasants and working class got filthy rich, EU and US defense contractors are making a fortune.. and the US and EU citizens are paying through their teeth for what is essentially BlackRock, Vanguard, StateStree to make a buck.
Every time I hear someone proclaim Slava Ukraini.. I cringe.
I puke.
Let us please have Biography of Victoria Nuland who is still teaching at Columbia University along side of Hilary Clinton.
Robert Kagan (Victoria Nuland's husband co-founded the neoconservative think tank in 1997 which was known as the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) with fellow Neocon William Kristol (Irving's son), Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, and Elliot Abrams, all of whom were destined for key positions in the Bush administration - with the exception of Kristol. PNAC became the outfit which wrote the faux-scholarly policy papers, and provided much of the intellectual energy, undergirding not only the unhinged Iraq invasion, but the broader neo-imperial strategy that’s brutally transformed the world and killed maybe millions.
***
This extraordinary Robert Kagan/Victoria Nudelman husband-and-wife duo makes quite a one-two punch for the Military-Industrial Complex, an inside-outside team that creates the need for more military spending, applies political pressure to ensure higher appropriations, and watches as thankful weapons manufacturers lavish grants on like-minded hawkish Washington "think tanks".
***
Fred Kagan's wife Kimberly (nee Kessler) is the head of the Institute for the Study of War and holds typical neocon positions.
***
https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2014/02/09/victoria-nulands-family-ties/
***
Nuland worked for war criminals Bush/Cheney/Obama back in the day..
https://geopolitics.co/2021/02/18/victoria-nuland-had-a-hand-in-every-us-intervention-in-the-past-30-years/
***
In spring 2011, Victoria Nuland became State Department spokesperson under Hillary Clinton as she ramped up the "regime change" assault on Moammar Ghaddafi of Libya.
The campaign led to the toppling of the Libyan government and killing of Ghaddafi. Commenting on the murder and bayonet sodomizing of Ghaddafi, Nuland’s boss Hillary Clinton chortled "We came, we saw, he died"…
***
After the murder of Ghaddafi, Clinton and hawks such as Nuland realized the US had control of the Libyan military arsenal. They could funnel arms to insurgents seeking to overthrow the Syrian government.
***
Neocon war pig Bill Kristol and Scott Horton Debate U.S. Interventionism:
youtube.com/watch?v=LxdXqAkgOVs
You have failed to report on the story of Bogdan Syrotiuk, a young socialist in Ukraine who has been sentenced to 15 years in prison for writing articles for the World Socialist Web Site. The WSWS has published articles on Bogdan's case since he was first arrested two years ago. He is 27 years old with health problems and Ukraine's prisons are hellholes. Please join in the efforts to get him released.
Here in Austria we have the same very harsh punishment; if you show symbols of the NSDAP, even if "something" happens accidentally, you will land in jail - but, there is no law prohibiting the symbols of Fascism or Communism. You give a good overview, but the reader has to know what the words stand for. Your usage of Fascism (based in Gentile, centered around the nation) and National Socialism (centered around racism and socialism) is at least problematic. Was Bandera a fascist or a national socialist? In my opinion, neither nor. Was he a socialist at all, clearly no, he fought for the suppressed small farmers, he wanted that these people had the same access to the law system as the Poles, protecting their property. Therefore, the OUN was fighting the Soviet occupation force after the Molotov/Ribbentrop deal, again because of property; before this deal, he fought against the Poles, and Poland was an aristocratic/Catholic autocracy. It would be good, if you present what are the actual positions of the Ukrainian Nationalist on property, free market or free speech. Only racism is clear; the Slavic Galicians hate the Slavic Russians, even though the languages are very similar and, throughout history, they have had the same main enemy: Poland.
In 2009 the European Parliament instituted an annual commemoration on August 23rd, to “mark the European Day of Remembrance for Victims of All Totalitarian and Authoritarian Regimes”. This is just one of several modern-day initiatives to perversely conflate Communism and Nazism, while transforming Wehrmacht and SS collaborators, Holocaust perpetrators, and fascists in countries liberated by the Red Army into victims, and laying blame for World War II at Soviets' feet.
***
And No one ever mentions that the Socialists and Communists were the first prisoners in Nazi concentration camps.
youtu.be/iI3ucytnbXo?t=1041
***
Like the Communist Party of Germany, the leader of which, Ernst Thälmann, was tortured and executed by Nazi regime or Georg Schumann, German politician, resistance fighter against the Nazi regime, tortured and killed by Gestapo on January 11, 1945
***
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. "
-Martin Niemöller, German theologian and pastor, arrested by Gestapo and imprisoned in concentration camp as a political prisoner
I remember reading Arendt in my teens and thinking it made sense, the narrative of closed (autocratic) vs. good, open western societies. Then Lucy pulled the football away.
Feel like an utter putz.
In Atlantist lands, the Big lie always becomes the lie of the land...then repeat it a thousand times...
Hi I’m having trouble opening this article. I would love to read it! Can I find it anywhere else?
I can print in .pdf. If you write your e-mail here.
It took a minute but it’s working now, thanks You are too kind!